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Wolf Man
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Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 03:49 pm |
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Hello fellow Warbosses. 
So... following up on the Tankbustas thread, I'm having a bit of a hard time deciding what my core HQ units are going to be.
I just recently began painting up my boyz again. (yay!) and it got me thinking about what i want my standard 2000 point list to look like.
So far, I had visions of two Big Meks allowing for two Dreads as Troops choices supported by various Elite squads and a couple squads of Kans. A SAG and a KFF seemed like a good pairing for a Dread/Kan heavy force.
Upon checking the price of Kans and Dreads, however, this ploy seemed a bit pricey and better left for another day sometime after I had developed a more standardized Ork army. Ofcourse, I had already purchased the SAG... and Ol' Zogwort (I thought maybe a Wierdboy would be fun now and again).
So now I'm thinking of running a force with Ghazkull at the helm supported mainly by a shit-ton of boyz and my second HQ would be of the Kustom Force Field variety - which would still allow for a Dread Troop choice. And now I await my order of Ghaz, the Big Mek, and Dready-dreadnought (with some grots thrown in for good measure!).
I'd like to get a decent Ork army painted up and ready to go ASAP. But with the way I paint (which is slooooooooowwwwww) I feel like I need to purchase and assemble a good army in the most efficient - and money saving - way possible. And I feel like I've already botched that plan buy purchasing HQs I'll hardly ever use.
I still plan to purchase at least one Black Reach Box Set when it comes out. And I know that I want at least one battlewagon (when does that come out? January?).
I can't help second-guessing every purchase I think I want to make however, and it is bugging the crap outta me. 
Help!
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HDEagle71
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Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 05:20 pm |
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Well from playing against the green tide I have a couple points of view.
The SAG is awsome against power armor troops (I hate it big time!)
Nobs are the best unit the orcs have with mech bodies for a 5+ inv and the feel no pain HQ guy.
The feel no pain IC HQ can be attached to a 30 man squad instead of nobs is no small thing either.
Remember in 5th ed troops are the only scoring units so you will need plenty of them and maxing out your squads sizes will help in anhilation.
What I have noticed is that with out some of the new stuff just taking regular boys is a lot like the old codex you will get shot down before you get there. But when I have had to go against a split shooty orc army that also has the normal HtH contigent troops you now force me to split my fire because the HtH is tough and the shooting can be brutal.
Just my opinion from my side of the table. Not sure it helps but you know I love to though my opinion in there anyway.
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Wolf Man
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Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 06:03 pm |
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Actually, that helps quite a bit Eagle, thanks! 
The main problem I see with the SAG is that... it's 5th edition now. No more sitting on top of a tower in the back of the battlefield completely safe from being targeted. I see the SAG being the main target of several heavy weapons on the first turn of the game... and I don't see him surviving.
Shooty/fighty mix. Yes. I agree. That's what I should be looking for. I've modelled up 30 slugga/choppa boyz and 30 shoota boyz. I'm a little more than halfway through painting the slugga boyz and hopefully I'll start on painting the shoota boyz in a couple weeks.
I've also got 8 Loota Boyz with a couple Meks toting mega-blastas. Painting? That's a ways off yet.
I've got probably 10 bikes mixed between new and old models in various states of assembly and disassembly and repair for the older ones.
Got 8 Stormboyz and would like to get more... but again with the second-guessing.
Got one box of Tank Bustas that I was SURE I would never use... but now... not so sure.  goddamn second-guessing. Maybe I need more?
I have maybe six burna boyz.
I have probably enough Nobz for a squad of 7 (keeping in mind my other Nobs are leading mobs of boyz).
I also have one trukk and some random bits and bobs of other orky devices (MegaNobz, a wartrakk and buggy, etc.) but nothing that really adds up to much.
Ghaz just seems too good to pass up. Sure he's expensive, but he's a one-man wrecking crew who is the one guy I wouldn't mind to have standing around after wiping out the enemy in an assault. T5, 2+/5+ save, adamantium skull (can't be insta-killed)... shit. go ahead and shoot him. try it. His WAAAGGGHHH makes his 2+ armor save INVULNERABLE. 
And the Big Mek with Kustom Force Field just seems so much more reliable than the SAG. I don't know if that's right or not - kind of hoping to figure that out on this board - but that's how it looks to me on paper.
Zogwart will probably also never get used or even painted. 
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ethmongul
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Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 06:04 pm |
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warbosses can take one unit of nobs a a troop choice,and remember you only get feelnopain if you have a painboss(extra 60 pts however a great buy)
keep nobs away from terminators with the new close combat rules
don't feel bad dude, I'm having the same problem
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Wolf Man
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Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 06:40 pm |
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Right. That's why I think I'll take the warboss/big mek combo more often than not.
Ghaz (and any Warboss) allowss that nasty squad of Nobz to become Troops, and therefore can capture objectives.
The Big Mek allows a dread to be a troops choice, and I assume the same then applies to it as well.
Couple those units with regular Troops choices like 'Ard Boyz and Slugga or Shoota Boyz (and I think I'll take a mob of grots just for fun) and soon you've got an army full of several Troops choices that don't resemble tired old Troops at all.
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HDEagle71
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Posted: Mon Jul 21st, 2008 07:33 pm |
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On the SAG.
Mark puts it in a unit of something so now it really pisses me off as it is a X number of wound bad ass gun that kills my nurgle feel no pain guys like they where guard out in the open!
Just saying I hate that gun and I have to deploy with cover between me and it to get the cover save 
And by hate I mean if I played Orcs I would have 2 hehe
I still want to go up against a 3 battle wagon army I thought that would be the way to go when I was initially looking at the list.
High armor open top but now that you can run and waag you probably don't need to fly across that field any faster but I like the idea of it.
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ethmongul
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Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 02:11 pm |
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don't count out trukks guys, i mean 12" get out and assault(not to mention if the waagh is called) is pretty nerve wracking to your opponents.
not to mention you can put that nob squad on a trukk,joined by your warboss,is also a nasty way to sucker punch most opponents
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Wolf Man
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Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 02:35 pm |
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ethmongul wrote: don't count out trukks guys, i mean 12" get out and assault(not to mention if the waagh is called) is pretty nerve wracking to your opponents.
not to mention you can put that nob squad on a trukk,joined by your warboss,is also a nasty way to sucker punch most opponents
Right, that's why I know I'll NEED at least one Battlewagon and at least one more trukk.
The battlewagon holds Ghaz and his Nobz and the trukks hold whomever (boyz, 'ard boyz).
That is why I think Ghaz is a no-brainer choice even at 225 points. His WAAAAGGHH guarantees an extra six inch move for all infantry. Meaning the vehicles can move 12", dump everyone out 2" from the front of the hull, then WAAAGGHH another 6" and charge 6"! That's a 26 inch move!
You could have a line of two big boyz mobz and a dread with some Kans move and run first turn, and have the vehicles slowly motor up to some safe spots behind the main battle line. The enemy will most likely focus on the footsloggers running towards them, and after blasting them to bits the vehicles come racing up to disgorge their troops who WAAGGHH and charge right into the unsuspecting enemy.
That makes me happy to think about.
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ethmongul
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Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 05:02 pm |
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wierdboyz are the one i'm having trouble with.
Mark uses one,and has success because he usually gets the waagh on his psker rolls.
i have never been that lucky with pskers(kinda why i like Khorne)
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Wolf Man
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Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2008 05:14 pm |
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In the few preliminary games where I've used my unpainted Orks I tried fielding a Warp 'Ead. I got mixed results.
In my mind, there's no good reason NOT to upgrade to the Warp'ead. And even then, I think you only make use of that re-roll on the psyker chart when you first roll an 'Ead Bang! result. In the past, I'd try rerolling anything i didn't like and would invariably roll 'Ead Bang! on my second chance. With the new template rules (no partials) 'Ead Bang! is doubly dangerous.
I think it may be worth fielding two Warp'eads in an army, if only to give yourself a real chance getting the WAAGGHH! every single turn. 
But there I go again... second guessing what to use (and purchase) for a core army list.
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ethmongul
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Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2008 06:28 pm |
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tankbustas get shot off the board again ! well maybe i should run them up in a trukk with the rest of the pack.
my first SAG across the board happened
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Pen dull
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 02:29 am |
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Wolf Man wrote: Actually, that helps quite a bit Eagle, thanks!
The main problem I see with the SAG is that... it's 5th edition now. No more sitting on top of a tower in the back of the battlefield completely safe from being targeted. I see the SAG being the main target of several heavy weapons on the first turn of the game... and I don't see him surviving.
.... Here is where you toss in a squad of grots, or a squad of shoota boyz at 6pts a piece. 15 of them should get you through the game. Also check out "ammo runts," as you can re-roll those scatters with those buggers (5th ed change).
Ghaz just seems too good to pass up. Sure he's expensive, but he's a one-man wrecking crew who is the one guy I wouldn't mind to have standing around after wiping out the enemy in an assault. T5, 2+/5+ save, adamantium skull (can't be insta-killed)... shit. go ahead and shoot him. try it. His WAAAGGGHHH makes his 2+ armor save INVULNERABLE.
And the Big Mek with Kustom Force Field just seems so much more reliable than the SAG. I don't know if that's right or not - kind of hoping to figure that out on this board - but that's how it looks to me on paper.
Zogwart will probably also never get used or even painted.
I have a hard time fielding Warpheads when given the other HQ choices. Ghaz IS wayyy cool, if you can fool your opponent into charging him with some big bad mutha' and you pop the waaa, you can get plenty of other boyz in there to support him while for one turn he acts like the 2+ invulnerable save un-insta-killable plug-in-the-hole that he is.
I'm going to start fielding KFF's again soon. They are pretty cool with the "touch one we're all in" shield at 5+, join him to the tankbustas or the burnas, he'll give them an added leadership boost (esp if you take the bosspole).
I just converted my new Warboss on a Bike. I gave him a huge choppa and a cybork body and an attack squig. On the bike when charging he gets 6 attacks at S8 at I5. Pretty damn good. I'm going to toss him in with a 5-Nob strong bike squad, 2 Nobz with Powerklaws and a Painboss. Waaa banner and bosspole complete.
At this point, he's got a 4+/5+I save, and feel no pain at T6, with three wounds. His WS is up to 6. If the entire unit of them turbo-boosts turn one, that will be 8 wounds with a 3+ cover save and feel no pain, majority T5.
Remember if you take a warboss (like Ghaz), your Nobz squad could be fielded as a scoring Troop choice. That's alot more reliable than a dreadnaught as a troop choice, and dreads, for the most part, end up being popped before turn 3 in most of my games. You gotta keep the clanking monster behind cover until someone comes close.
If you have 6-7 Nobz, GREAT! That makes a great squad. 7 Cybork Nobz, with stikks, 2 Big Choppas, 2 Powerklaws, a bosspole, a waagh banner, a Doc with orderly comes out to 297pts. They'll kick out a whole lotta hurt when they charge, and be able to take out most stuff. (8 s7 attacks, 8 s9 powerklaws, 10 s5 regulars).
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Wolf Man
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 01:40 pm |
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Mark, how did you model up a Warboss on a bike?
Also, since Warbosses allow a Nobz squad to be taken as Troops, then do the Nobz on Bikes (following the Warboss on Bike into battle) counts as Troops too? I guess they would, right? Now THAT is a nice objective grabbing squad!
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ethmongul
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Posted: Thu Jul 24th, 2008 06:11 pm |
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| yes dey do,but that is a really pointed out list
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Pen dull
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Posted: Fri Aug 22nd, 2008 04:48 am |
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Zzap! Bang! Back on to this thread!
My current Warboss on a bike is a regular Warboss fig wielding the 'Uge Choppa that came with the new bikes box. He's standing on the chassis of a Zzap gun, with a front wheel of a trukk and two back wheels from a fantasy dwarf cannon. He's standing on a sort of 'attack trike.'
The Nobz bikers are kitted out as follows:
7 Nobz bikes (140) bikes (175). One big choppa, two power klaws, one Waaagh banner, a Painboy with orderly (the little guy rides on the back) and bosspole. All of the bikes are upgraded to cyborks. The total for the unit is 460.
For 460 points you get on the charge at Weapon Skill 5:
Inititative 5:
4 @ S7
15 @ S5
4 @ always wounds on 4+
Initiative 1:
8 @ S9
MEQ math ( I think this might be slightly off)
9.9 + 2.64 + 2.64 = 7 + 3 + 1 wounds = 11 wounds, = 7 dead marines at I5.
5 Powerklaws hit, and kill 4.
So this 460 point squad can rip in and kill 11 marines in a single assault.
The Warboss I have with Big Choppa, Attack Squig and Cybork Body on a bike. This gives him the WS6 when with the nobz.
His six attacks, 4 of them hit, all wound and could insta-kill toughness 4. He'll only kill 2 marines at best in an assault. What's wicked about him is breaking him off just before an assault, and sending him in to fight toughness 3 guys. On his bike at T6 4+/5+ he just stands there and kills stuff. I'd like to see what he does against a scarab swarm, as he'd be insta-killing bases. Heh.
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ethmongul
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 12:44 pm |
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Ok, now that I'm moved in and getting appliances, I'm getting back to normal.
On with orks
I've been comming up with some crazy lists in my head.
2 Big meks with SAG
4 30 ork squads with nob/pwrklaw(could be shootas also)
3 3 kan squads w/mega blst
I have not pointed this out yet,but I'm pretty sure its under 2000 pts.
And I could still take 2 dreads as troops if there's room
The other one is this:
2 warbosses slugga/big choppa
4 12 orks with nob/pwrklaw on trukks/wrekin ball only
3 10 nob squads on trukk slugga/choppa only on trukks/wrekin ball only
Still haven't pointed this one out yet but it should come under 2000pts
Man da orks are crazy
What do you guys think?
Last edited on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 12:58 pm by ethmongul
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Pen dull
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 03:00 pm |
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I like the 2nd one better... like the nobz fielded as scoring-unit troops. Bad-ass.
I'm thinking about this:
10-Nobz on bikes. 2 Powerklaws, Doc, poles, et al., 6 'Uge Choppas.
Join to the squad a big mek on a bike with an attack squig and give him the burna.
This should careen in around 650 points, but the Big Mek will assault with WS5 S5, and have 5 attacks with a power weapon at I4.
Then also at I4 would be 24 str7 attacks at WS5. Then the 8 powerklaw str9 attacks to round it out at the end.
Everyone is t5, 5+Inv, Feel No Pain.
Here's the trick, field two of these units, and you'll have two elites, two HQ, and still enough room to throw in 2-3 units of boyz in a 2000point list.
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Derling
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 03:26 pm |
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Pen dull wrote: I like the 2nd one better... like the nobz fielded as scoring-unit troops. Bad-ass.
I'm thinking about this:
10-Nobz on bikes. 2 Powerklaws, Doc, poles, et al., 6 'Uge Choppas.
Join to the squad a big mek on a bike with an attack squig and give him the burna.
This should careen in around 650 points, but the Big Mek will assault with WS5 S5, and have 5 attacks with a power weapon at I4.
Then also at I4 would be 24 str7 attacks at WS5. Then the 8 powerklaw str9 attacks to round it out at the end.
Everyone is t5, 5+Inv, Feel No Pain.
Here's the trick, field two of these units, and you'll have two elites, two HQ, and still enough room to throw in 2-3 units of boyz in a 2000point list.
And they are all scoring units.
Honestly, now in 5th ed, it's hard for me not to think that 1-2 warbosses is the best combo for Ork HQs. Scoring Nob units (be them biker or non-biker) are just mean little machines.
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ethmongul
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 05:59 pm |
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I'm still contradicted on what the staying power of these two lists will be, I mean, they will be great in close but get shot up quickly, and be very vernerable to template weapons.However, I like the speed of the second list. Trukks are pretty small and I have been able to hide them successfully before.The first list is just about "come and get me" philosiphy, it won't stand up to a firing line very well.
I'm going to try a mixture of these two lists and see what happens.
2 warrbosses 'uge choppa/slugga,'evy armor,cybork body
1 10 nob squad 'eavy armor,dok,cybork bodies,WAAGH banna,4 plwrklw on trukk rpj,wrekkin ball
1 6 nob squad 'eavy armor,dok,WAAGH banna,4 pwrklw,cybork bodies
3 12 ork squad nob,pwrklw,bosspole on trukk rpj,wrekkin ball
1 12 'ard boy squad nob pwrklw,bosspole on trukk rpj,wrekkin ball
3 killa kans kustom mega blasta,armor plates,grot rigga
1991 pts
If I put 1 warboss in the trukk with nobs and have the other walking forward with the other nob squad,surrounded by the kans, I should have a pretty good 1-2 punch army.
Wish me luck
Last edited on Wed Oct 15th, 2008 05:59 pm by ethmongul
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twaimn
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 08:49 pm |
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jumping into this late... but the dreadnaught that you take as a troops choice would NOT be a scoring unit, because vehicles cannot be scoring units.
I think they should let people play the armored company still... just to see the look on their faces when they realize their only infantry is some elites choices.
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