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Professor Chaos
Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 01:55 pm |
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What do you guys think?
Would GW if bought and brought under new managment be good or bad, and bring some sanity & logic back to their business policy?
Would having Classic 40k with a set rules system and codex system that does not chage every three years be an alternative to the "New Warhammer 40K Collectiable Minature Game" ?
Even though at the moment this senario seems far from happening, with the economy the way it is (inflation), the high prices for theirl uxury products, the constant rules changes that seem to piss off vets of the game, and their shrinking profits; I think this is becoming a real possibility for them getting gobbled up by a larger company or selling off more sections like they did to the Black Library (which was profitable ? I don't get that))
Last edited on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 01:56 pm by Professor Chaos
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Brother Tiberius
Moderator
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 02:29 pm |
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I think GW's business strategy is absolutely logical.
Once you get over the idea that the veteran gamer is not GW's core market. The 12 year old kid with limited attention span, and Mommy and Daddy that will spend about $500 or so on the hobby for that kid is the target market. Black Library was cool, but how many limited edition Imperial Guard mess kits do you really sell to a customer? I really don't know what I'd do with my one, let alone a second.
You, with your 1 blister pack a month (if that) spending habit, doesn't keep a company going. It's the same for most local game shops. Those guys have invested in their armies and games, and just are looking for a place to hang out and spread the stench. They like to look, but if it's a choice between a pizza for dinner at the game shop, and playing the old game, or buying a blister and drinking some soda from Aldi, they'll choose the pizza and the instant gratification over the latter any day of the week. Replace Pizza's with Pabst, and you've got the same situation with D Company. I have all the armies I really ever want, still sitting in boxes off a shelf, with next to no time to work on them. Why would I buy another army at this point? Those Templars have already paid for themselves.
The 12 year old that wants 4 tactical squads, a Land Raider, and a Command Squad, is the target market. And all the tools and paints that they sell, you can get for less at just about any hobby shop. But Mom and Dad don't know that and they want conveinence, since they'd rather be anywhere but that game shop. So they buy rather than travel. GW's strategies are just a result of their recognition of that spending habit. And there is always a fresh crop of 12 year olds...
And with the edition change, I still maintain, if any of you want to drag out your 2nd edition, or 3rd edition, we can go back to playing those rules. We don't, because we want to try the new thing, not something that is old and stale.
Just my $0.02... and that isn't directed at any person, just commentary on the way I see it.
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Wolf Man
Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 03:21 pm |
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I agree with nearly all of Tiberius' points.
GW doesn't care about black peo... I mean, GW doesn't care about veteran gamers. Not where money is concerned anyway. That is what Forgeworld is all about (and also why ForgeWorld is so freakin' expensive).
Sure, they targeted Apocolypse to us, but who really bought into it whole-sale? I bought the book (from CT  ), leafed through it, and set it down in the same spot that it has sat for the last several months. I've never played an Apoc. game, and I don't plan to. I like the datasheets, but I don't see the need for many of the rules listed in Apoc. I actually WANT my ultra-large-scale games to take a LONG time to play. To me, that's the fun of it.  I don't want a bunch of rules that allow me to play 10,000 point-per-side games in five hours.
In any case, don't forget that GW is a British company and not an American one. That makes a difference when you start using our local economy as an argument for their fictitious buy-out. Plus, who would buy GW??? Wizards of the Coast? Doubtful. Something like Hasbro? What the heck would they do with all the GW stores?
I don't know of any other games maker that runs their business the way GW does, opening their own stores to sell only their own products.
My only disagreement with Tiberius' comments is why we don't play 2nd or 3rd edition ever. I don't think it's because we want so badly to try the new thing and not play something stale. I think it is probably due more to the fact that all our friends move forward to the next edition, and we move ahead with them. Additionally, if any of us wanted to get a 2nd Edition game underway, we'd each have to spend AT LEAST two days going over the rules before we got to play a game that would take twice as long as it should because we wouldn't know what we were doing.
Trust me. A game of 2nd Edition 40k would definitely NOT be stale. In fact it would probably be more new and exciting than any 5th edition game.
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HDEagle71
Administrator
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 07:20 pm |
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I have no idea who would buy GW although I think changing the rules set and new models keeps the game interesting and keeps people from getting bored. We bitch but that is apart of the hobby as well right what fun is anything if you don;t have a good controversary about whose army or unit is more broken than another. I love that stuff and look at this forum most of the posts are due to that.
I am in Tiberous's boat and many others I have a ton of stuff but no time to paint etc. it's hard for me to even want anything else while I look at all the stuff unpainted and unassembled in my basement.
I play because I like getting together with my friends if we played cards I would probably enjoy that just as well because of all of you not necesarilly the game  Although I do love putting the smack down on someone's uber HQ more than winning at sheeps head!
Good question though Jake I just don't have a good idea if it would be good or bad but we probably would not like it hehe
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Derling
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 06:19 pm |
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Well, in all honesty, I couldn't begin to answer whether or not it would be good or bad if they were bought out. Alot of their strategic decision making seems at the least problematic in regards to consumer retention over new customer acquisition. I sense it would be bad though. As little as the current leadership at GW may know, they at least operate pointing in a general direction we are at least slightly comfortable with. Who knows what would happen if some American Toy company took them over. Would we some spring-loaded plastic-dart launching plasmacannon toting marines, or see prepainted marines made in China who armor change water when soaked in hot water? Who knows what kind of crazy decisions annother company with a different mindset.
I do think that change is a necessity if you don't want to be the guys in the Napolean's basement playing some antique game system that hasn't had model or erratts support because sales dwindled years ago. Thanks to the interwebs, complaints are the one constant in the GW universe. The day the GW forums were first launched, the first GW trolls were born and they've been thriving ever since.
p.s. and while I like it in skirmish games like Necromunda, I'd really never want to go back to a RT or 2nd ed version of 40k. I don't think we've hit the "perfect 40k game system", though I used to think it was 4th edition until I played it for a few years and realized it's many faults. I don't think 5th edition is "it" either, though I do think it will make a good experiment to see if certain interesting game concepts (like going back to single model wound allocation) can work within a company level battle model.
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Wolf Man
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 11th, 2008 06:48 pm |
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Derling wrote: Who knows what would happen if some American Toy company took them over. Would we some spring-loaded plastic-dart launching plasmacannon toting marines, or see prepainted marines made in China who armor change water when soaked in hot water? Who knows what kind of crazy decisions annother company with a different mindset.
...and don't think that is far from possibility. Just look at what happened when FASA died off and WizKids! bought up BattleTech. The kick-ass miniatures game I grew up with became Clicky-Tech with pre-painted BattleMechs that looked rather cartoonish and stood upon Clicky bases. Blech! 
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Professor Chaos
Member
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Posted: Sat Jul 12th, 2008 05:03 pm |
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Wolf Man wrote: Derling wrote: Who knows what would happen if some American Toy company took them over. Would we some spring-loaded plastic-dart launching plasmacannon toting marines, or see prepainted marines made in China who armor change water when soaked in hot water? Who knows what kind of crazy decisions annother company with a different mindset.
...and don't think that is far from possibility. Just look at what happened when FASA died off and WizKids! bought up BattleTech. The kick-ass miniatures game I grew up with became Clicky-Tech with pre-painted BattleMechs that looked rather cartoonish and stood upon Clicky bases. Blech!
I agree no matter how much I dislike GW main business policy, I do not want to see them go out like FASA.
I wish they would find a way to perpetuate their model sales, without the now near constant non-stop codex creep and rules updating. I've stated my reasons why I do not like this.
This is what I beleive they should do and have been starting to do (summer worldwide campains, Apocalypse, etc..) but not enough of to be profitable.
They need to sell models that already fit into the rules and codex's and not revolve the rules and codex's around models with new or changed abilities. They also need to do what they did with the original Lost and Damned List (make new armies from pre-existing model lines).
They need to drive these model sales with a hard story driven concept supported by small cheap campain books, online PDF's, and White Dwarf, alternative lists that can be played in any game and this is the most important part that it is outside the their Tournement Circut.
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Jeppy
Member
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Posted: Sun Jul 13th, 2008 04:52 am |
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Does anybody know more of the details about FASA dying off? I know it's been a long time, but back in the day they made some really cool, kick ass games. I miss a lot of the games they made.
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Stormcaller56
Member
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Posted: Sun Jul 13th, 2008 04:12 pm |
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First, i dont think an american company would buy GW. the currency issues would make it a pretty insane business decision. also, if you look at the numbers for GW, the highest operating loses are in their american locations.
i think that IF it is going to happen, it might be purchased by another british or european company. the effect? this is such a niche market that it doesnt seem real likely that a new owner would totally change the gaming system, for risk of losing LOTS of income.
the last thing to consider is that the business end and execution end of GW are very disconnected. the game designers are not regularly involved in the business decisions, and the suits most likely dont have a fucking clue of how to play the game.
this all may be a pollyanna view, but remember that WE are looking at this whole thing through american lenses...
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HeavyLeadBelly
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Posted: Sun Jul 13th, 2008 06:43 pm |
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Well Shadowrun is still around, and still my favorite RPG. Wizkids owns it now and as far as I can tell, at least in 3rd edition, the rules have only gotten better and same with the fluff.
-Dan
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