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ethmongul
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Posted: Thu Aug 20th, 2009 06:29 am |
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so here is the link for the photos
http://picasaweb.google.com/ethmongul/Dethdrag?authkey=Gv1sRgCPDbrayWsK7q-gE&feat=directlink
Rules are in the BBQ post. I will move them to this post tommorrow.
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ethmongul
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Posted: Thu Aug 20th, 2009 12:32 pm |
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Here is the rules so far.....
Dethdrag (1 drag will kill ya!)
This will be done on a 4' by 7 1/2' board consisting mostly of the storm drain, except for the last 1 1/2', which will then open up to the 4' width. 12" of open space till you get to the finish line ( which is 4" wide), and then another 4-6" to the prizes at the end (not sure what exactly these will be yet, but I have been assured that there will be plenty of stuff to choose from).
The game will last exactly 1 hr or if someone finishes alone and gets a prize, or if the race is extended because "It's going just that close and awesomely!"
The ruleset is meant for 4 racers.
There is no squad coherency and the 1" rule is not being used, unless the squad is split more than 12" apart, they will then be considered a separate unit. I.E. a squad in a trukk jumps out turn 1, turn 2 only the nob gets back in and races 18" forward, he is then considered a separate unit for CC and shooting.
There will be no deepstriking units or any other power that can cause a deepstrike, phasing, teleporting, or weapons that cause a move other than normal. (SAG). There will also be no reserve or scout moves available to racers, this includes wargear that will allow the unit to do these moves.
No going off the track in the storm drain.
Players will roll for random 1rst turn.
Racers will be able to purchase 250pts max. of either fast attack choices or something that goes fast. NOTE: If you intend to bring a dedicated transport that is a fast vehicle, you are limited to the troops choice that it comes with. I.E you can't buy tankbustas w/a trukk (cause they don't get a vehicle choice normally).
Normal 40k movement,shooting, and assault rules apply, but there are some catches. We have invented some new rules called BUMP and BID
BUMP: You can chose to bump another model out of your way based on size of racer, I.E a jetbike cannot bump a trukk, but can bump another jetbike or regular bike, by declaring a bump when they come into contact with it, ( all further movement available stops), the bumper then rolls a d6, If a 6 is rolled, then you have effectively bumped your opponent, he then scatters 1d6". If a 1 is rolled, you have been bumped, you scatter 1d6". If a 2-5 is rolled then both models scatter 1d3". If you scatter into other models, roll as it happens using the same chart. You cannot be bumped off the track and tanks cannot bump ( they have tank shock and ram already), and I'm not letting trukks ram in this, but they can bump other smaller units and have no retaliating effects.
BID: There will be four gun sponsens located on the bridges. At the begining of the turn, racers may choose to BID an amount of inches instead of moving, to shoot with the turrets. The turrets will be 1 shot BS2 STR 9 no ap. If no one decides to BID on the turrets, then I will fire them. Once a BID is made, all models in that persons force are restricted in there movement. I.E. Player 1 bids 6" off of his 24" move, even if he looses the BID, he is still restricted to -6" off of his models for that turn.Models that are immobilized or falling back cannot BID.
The first turn will consist of players moving onto the board their FULL movement with no BID that round.
There will be a chance to "fix" an immobilized vehicle on a roll of 4 or better on a d6 in the players shooting phase, giving up the ability to shoot that vehicle.
OK the end of the race.
Just because players cross the finish line, doesn't mean they will get a prize. You have to end on a prize to get it. You can be shot off of it or contest it (1" to contest). Destroyed vehicles don't count, but immobilised ones will count. If there is a contested prize, players will roll off for it.
Last edited on Mon Aug 24th, 2009 04:29 pm by ethmongul
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Pen dull
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Posted: Thu Aug 20th, 2009 06:50 pm |
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ethmongul wrote:
Racers will be able to purchase 250pts max. of either fast attack choices or something that goes fast. NOTE: If you intend to bring a dedicated transport that is a fast vehicle, you are limited to the troops choice that it comes with. I.E you can't buy tankbustas w/a trukk (cause they don't get a vehicle choice normally), however you can buy a squad of boys w/trukk and tankbustas and dump out the boys so the bustas get the trukk. The boys will just have to hoof it.
I think this might need some clarification. Tankbustas are not fast attack choices or "something that goes fast."
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ethmongul
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Posted: Thu Aug 20th, 2009 07:47 pm |
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| I have edited the core rules to represent this issue. You can only take fast attack choices or something that can be upgraded to go fast.
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Pen dull
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Posted: Fri Aug 21st, 2009 12:54 pm |
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| Awright cool!
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ethmongul
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Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 07:56 pm |
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Well.....That was some racing. It really went off well and I'm not going to make all together that many changes to the core rules.
Any other comments from racers is much appreciated!
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Wolf Man
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Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 12:05 pm |
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You may want to consider calling it Deff Drag just to keep with normal Orky speak.
Just a suggestion.
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ethmongul
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Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 12:39 pm |
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With all of the killing going on the track, I didn't want to decieve anybody about what exactly was going to happen if you decide to race.
It also seems that I have gotten the folks from GW UK interested in my ideas! Someone from there neck of the woods just got a hold of me with some new ideas. They call that race orkyanapolis, and it seems they have had it at the last 2 Gamesday UK.
I also didn't want any trouble with copyright stuff, since this is definately going to be a Rockcon now.
Make up your racing teams people, this has turned into one hell of a dealy!
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Wolf Man
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Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 02:38 pm |
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ethmongul wrote: I also didn't want any trouble with copyright stuff, since this is definately going to be a Rockcon now.
Unless you're publishing these rules in an attempt to sell them for profit, I really wouldn't worry about copyright stuff. I guess it seems like GW likes to put a scare into people about that kind of stuff, but thankfully we told the King of England to go fuck himself a looooong time ago.  
That being said, I can't wait to check out this game of yours! Looks like a lot of fun. Very nice work putting it all together, eth! 
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Brother Tiberius
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Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 03:34 pm |
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Wolf Man wrote: ethmongul wrote: I also didn't want any trouble with copyright stuff, since this is definately going to be a Rockcon now.
Unless you're publishing these rules in an attempt to sell them for profit, I really wouldn't worry about copyright stuff. I guess it seems like GW likes to put a scare into people about that kind of stuff, but thankfully we told the King of England to go fuck himself a looooong time ago.
That being said, I can't wait to check out this game of yours! Looks like a lot of fun. Very nice work putting it all together, eth!
"Unless you're publishing these rules in an attempt to sell them for profit, I really wouldn't worry about copyright stuff. I guess it seems like GW likes to put a scare into people about that kind of stuff, but thankfully we told the King of England to go fuck himself a looooong time ago."
Wolfman, that's pure gold.
At the first arts and farts night at Joe's, we were kind of griping about how GW was riding our Coat Tails into Rock Con, and, at least at the time, wasn't going to provide us any prize support.
So we discussed how to give GW the big 'eff you. One idea was a big sandwich board sign that said something like "We've propped up GW gaming at this 'con for 6 years, and they couldn't provide us any stinking prize support."
But, yours is pure gold.
I'm all for printing it on the next D Company T shirt...
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ethmongul
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Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 03:53 pm |
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There have been some updates on the rules:
1. Immobilized vehicles and falling back troops cannot BID.
2. You can "fix" any amount of immobilized vehicles in your turn on a 4 or better on a d6, giving up that models ability to shoot for that turn.
3. The game will be 1 hr long now, or if the judge extends it because of coolness.
4. The first turn will have the racers move their FULL movement onto the board and no BID.
I can't freakin wait people, I can't freakin wait!
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Seti
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Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 04:17 pm |
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"4. The first turn will have the racers move their FULL movement onto the board and no BID."
That one is for Derling
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Pen dull
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Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 05:32 pm |
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Seti wrote: "4. The first turn will have the racers move their FULL movement onto the board and no BID."
That one is for Derling
Well, not really.
Derling's "Maximum 1st Turn Bid" was just a symptom of a greater illness in the game that was noticed much earlier: those who went first were screwed. Very quickly players adopted unconventional racing tactics, including moving "nothing" turn one, or like the Hive Tyrant team, sitting on the edge of the board waiting to blow folks up from behind.
Simply put, that's not drag-racing. So after seeing some other rules we noticed that nobody likes a race where turn one everyone just shoots at one another. You want folks to shoot, but it isn't a race unless there is some racing.
That is why I'm in favor of the first-turn-max-move-no-bid.
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"Everybody can take all summer to build one flyer a piece.... Bam instant flying retard fest." - joe
"When you die, I'm gonna cry a little." - Derling
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Stormcaller56
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Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2009 01:14 am |
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i have to agree with you on that point. i might even add something about having to make a minimum move EVERY turn, unless you are say, in the finish line area, for example. add to this movement in the general direction of the finish line. however, once you past a certain point, say the second bridge, you can move back towards the starting line.
and the converse of sitting at the start doing nothing occured, when seti flashed to the finish area and just sat still taking shots (of course we know how that ended!).
i think the tactics that people evolved were in part from observing what others were doing, as well as the strengths of the teams they brought. we have discussed as a group how sprinting to the prizes right away may not be so advantageous. survival is as much a part of this "race" as the moving at high speed in the direction of the prizes, which given the nature of the gaming system, seems to make sense.
the word "race" seems to best apply to the general movement of teams in the direction of the prizes, while trying not to get shot to mush. the key terms, again, is movement, as you have said.
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Stormcaller56
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Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2009 12:18 pm |
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i will now contradict my own comments and say that doing nothing turn 1 should be allowed, as well as sitting back and just shooting at stuff from the start line.
why? because this is no different than someone who can move 24"/turn racing to the other end of the board and then just sitting, bidding 24 and shooting.
derling's tactic or the tyrants' were used earlier, true. but it is just as crappy having to endure 5-6 turns of shooting from contestants and turrents while trying to reach the prizes.
the other factor here is the clock. if someone chooses to "go slow," then they risk not getting to the prizes, although this didn't happen on saturday.
if you put a constraint on what happens out the gate, NP, but then you should put some kind of constraint on units that zip to the end and just sit as well. or better yet, NO constraints.
aaarrrgggg!!!
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ethmongul
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Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2009 12:47 pm |
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The thoughts on the first turn move were discussed and changed for the Rockcon races. The race that is going on there will be a bit different than the test games. IMO, that is how it should have happened, and it has gone to plan accordingly.
The fact is, players should be going for the prizes at the end of the race, I'm not convinced that there should be any default rules concerning what happens at the end, cause that's what the race is about. The difference is, They already have a chance to win and have done what they were supposed to do, not beat the crap out of everybody in the first turns and then not be able to finish the race at all.
Also, a point to be made in the first race, yes Seti got all the way to the prizes right away, but Lady Les,( who by the way had never played 40k before in her life) came on in the last 3 min and knocked the skimmer tank out of the air, effectively immobilizing the vehicle. In the flag race, Pendul came in and destroyed Seti at the end of it with at least 20 min left to go for the 1 hr time slot. What really comes into play here, is the fact that the track wasn't able to open up to the 4' width after you got through the storm drain. I know it wasn't anyones fault that this occured, (space constrictions) but I have to say that I designed the race to promote those kinds of results at the end of it, and actually get the racers to fight for the prizes and not just let all of the really fast choices win, without anything happening to them. Which by the by, happened much to my suprise.
All in all, the rulset changes are for the race at Rockcon, where there are not going to be many people used to the idea of this, and I don't want to see a lot of people getting sore over the fact of one guy smashing everybody to smithereens and then in turn not finishing the race at all. You will also note, that I have included a chance to fix an immobilised vehicle. That was included for the same reasons, so everybody has a chance to get into the scrap at the end for the prize.
Last edited on Tue Aug 25th, 2009 12:49 pm by ethmongul
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Wolf Man
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Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2009 03:52 pm |
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Why not just remove the bidding system?
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Pen dull
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Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2009 05:29 pm |
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Stormcaller56 wrote: i will now contradict my own comments and say that doing nothing turn 1 should be allowed, as well as sitting back and just shooting at stuff from the start line.
why? because this is no different than someone who can move 24"/turn racing to the other end of the board and then just sitting, bidding 24 and shooting.
Except that is is different.
At very least someone who is moving "24"/turn racing to the other end of the board and then just sitting," is doing something that we might want to see happening in the game.
They are racing to the other end of the board, in a game that is supposed to be a race.
Folks who come on first are at a disadvantage because their rear armor is unnaturally exposed to folks coming on 2nd-4th. A quick unit (like a Falcon or a Hive Tyrant) coming on the board edge 2" and sitting there is basically discouraging everyone from moving *at all.* The end result of this would be a whole race of folks moving onto the track 2" with their rear armor backed up against the wall, shooting until everyone was dead. Then they'd meander down to the end of the race at their own speed.
Sometimes one must ask oneself, "What if everyone did this?" In the case of the hugging of the track edge, it would make for a very very boring race. In the case of the full-movement bid at the beginning of the game, it would make for a very very boring race, where someone frustrated from the boredom would move first just to get it over with.
I mean, why did you prohibit the use of deepstrike units or vehicles during the pit fights? Same reason, yes? So that you would force something to happen; so folks wouldn't bring a Landraider filled with assault marines, or a C'Tan. Why were reserves and outflanking prohibited as well?
The answer is: compulsory action is needed to enforce a game's flavor. It isn't a Pit Fight if there is a Landraider in the middle.
If everyone raced to the end of the track, if everyone had a falcon and then duked it out, the game would still work how it was intended. If everyone stays on the start line and does nothing, the game is broken.
How do you fix it? How do you make sure people "race?"
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"How is that even possible?!?"- Milkman
"Everybody can take all summer to build one flyer a piece.... Bam instant flying retard fest." - joe
"When you die, I'm gonna cry a little." - Derling
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ethmongul
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Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2009 06:49 pm |
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Wolf Man wrote: Why not just remove the bidding system?
Its funny that you ask this question because initially, I was going to run a race without it, to see if it was 'better' without it, and for the first few turns of Race #1, that is exactly what did happen because,I as the judge, pretty much forgot about it.
Then something very suprising happened, I thought about actually doing it as an auctioneer would ( you know, like the guys down in Texas do for cattle), and low and behold, it worked like magic. There were at least 4 seprerate occasions that people blurted out numbers without meaning to, and the tactical effect was turned into a reality.
I know that this might have been an effect of the alcohol levels of some of the racers, but the BID really turned into something that was pretty much used the way that I intended it to be. Something that's fun, but not gamebreaking in any way. It really was cool to see those guys (and gal), shouting out their BID numbers, before each turn and really being aggresive with it. Basically, it turned into the trump card that makes this something different than just, " I race across the board and win a prize," kind of an event.
You should make up some racing teams for Rockcon dude. Its really turning into something cool!
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Wolf Man
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Posted: Tue Aug 25th, 2009 07:43 pm |
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ethmongul wrote: You should make up some racing teams for Rockcon dude. Its really turning into something cool!
Oh I'm sure I've got some landspeeders and bikes laying around.
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