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twaimn
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 10:10 pm |
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Im pretty sure that we've always played (at least I have, in recent memory) that as soon as it's immobilized you can hit it automatically in the following assault phase.
I'm interesting in the interpretation of this, however, in terms of things like monoliths deepstriking. its moving at cruising speed, which is actually faster than it can go... does this mean you *do* hit it on 6's? or does it count as fast as it's allowed to go? it can dump troops, but can it not use it's gauss arc?
I think you should be able to shoot your drop pod on the turn it deepstrikes, and I'm not convinced that something like my monolith should be able to as well... but I think that if we're going to start making house rules, they should be able to pertain to every model that might use the rule, not just one model from this army, or one model from that one.
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TW
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 10:12 pm |
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if the monolith isn't 'fast' it couldn't shoot, according to that interpretation of the rule.
the drop pod is fast, right? so it could shoot one weapon.
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twaimn
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 10:24 pm |
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I dunno if it's fast. lol.
I'm on board with the monolith not being able to shoot... already played a couple games doing that
but the monolith isnt able to move at cruising speed... it can only go 6" a turn. It's acceptable, then to assume that it's moving more than is normally allowed the turn it deepstrikes?
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TW
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 10:30 pm |
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I believe so.
Drop pod is..not fast. so technically couldn't shoot when it lands
as for assaulting, here is the rule about moving and assaulting:
p 63, attacking a vehicle that is immobilized or was stationary on its previous turn: automatic
attacking a vehicle that moved at combat speed in its previous turn 4+
attacking a vehicle that moved cruising speed in its previous turn: 6+
so technically, a drop pod (or a tank that gets shot) can both move at cruising speed in it's previous turn AND be immobilized when it is assaulted.
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Derling
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 10:41 pm |
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TW wrote: so technically, a drop pod (or a tank that gets shot) can both move at cruising speed in it's previous turn AND be immobilized when it is assaulted.
I caught that shortly before I left work today. I kept focussing on the first bit, but it's the second row which causes the controversy. It's good to see it is in no way cleared up over 4th.
I'm going to ask a little bird and see what he says....
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Derling
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 10:48 pm |
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twaimn wrote: but the monolith isnt able to move at cruising speed... it can only go 6" a turn. It's acceptable, then to assume that it's moving more than is normally allowed the turn it deepstrikes?
It would have to be. Falling to a planet is a bit different than slowing moving under your own propulsion.
regardless of how you fluff it out(maybe it takes tons of energy to teleport a monlith if falling from the skies isn't your thing, and that weird warping and power signiture makes shooting and be hurt wierder), the rules seem simple and absolutely clear and irrefutable. You count as moving at cruising speed on the turn you deep strike.
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twaimn
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 11:08 pm |
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completely agreed. I just think that sucks if the drop pod isnt a fast vehicle. and then my point in bringing up the monolith to compare is that if we're going to let the drop pods shoot the turn they deepstrike, what else deepstrikes and wouldnt be able to shoot... cause I dont think you can tell one player he can just skip that rule without telling all the players affected by the rule they can skip it too
Last edited on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 11:08 pm by twaimn
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Wolf Man
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 02:03 pm |
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Derling wrote: twaimn wrote: but the monolith isnt able to move at cruising speed... it can only go 6" a turn. It's acceptable, then to assume that it's moving more than is normally allowed the turn it deepstrikes?
It would have to be. Falling to a planet is a bit different than slowing moving under your own propulsion.
regardless of how you fluff it out...
I'm all for reducing the amount of hurt a monolith can dish out, but I do believe that when a Monolith deep strikes is actually rises up out of the ground rather than being shot down onto the planets surface... like in Dawn of War. Drop pods come screaming through the atmosphere. Demons just <poof> appear. Jump pack troops are dropped from low flying aircraft. Terminators are teleported. And Monoliths rise up out of the ground (having been buried for millenia). Right?
So really, fluff wise, a Monolith probably isn't moving fast at all when it enters the table via deep strike.
Although personally, I think it should automatically take a penetrating hit each time it does so. 
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Derling
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 02:05 pm |
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Wolf Man wrote: Although personally, I think it should automatically take a penetrating hit each time it does so.
I thhink a simple 4+ roll to avoid being destroyed would be a simpler solution.
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Wolf Man
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 02:08 pm |
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Yeah, that's good too. Just to keep things fair.
LOL
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Pen dull
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 03:43 pm |
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Just decide that the atmosphere on your strange embattled planet ends 6" off the tabletop.
Then the drop pod can be dropped from space and avoid moving at fast speed.
Ish.
I say if the monolith STARTS immobilized, then by definition it cannot move. It can only deepstrike, not "fly in" or whatever. So it "counts as" immobilized, which translates into "it may fire, because it cannot move."
"Did the drop pod move at cruising speed?"
"No, it couldn't, because it was immediately immoblized once my hand brought it over the tabletop."
"Fair enough. Fire away."
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twaimn
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 04:42 pm |
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so you're saying that because the drop pod is immobilized the turn it lands, it doesn't actually count as moving that turn, for purposes of shooting?
Thats equally dangerous, because the game you do that, I'm going to drive all my landraider crusaders into woods, and when they immobilize, shoot every guy they have because they were immobilized the turn they moved... so they don't count as moving then, right?
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Wolf Man
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 05:05 pm |
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Pen dull wrote: I say if the monolith STARTS immobilized, then by definition it cannot move. It can only deepstrike, not "fly in" or whatever. So it "counts as" immobilized, which translates into "it may fire, because it cannot move."
Huh? Why is the monolith starting out being immobilized? It moved. It moved onto the table. And unless it takes a hit which immobilizes it, it will continue to move next turn.
"Did the drop pod move at cruising speed?"
Yeah, because that is what the rule says.
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TW
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 05:09 pm |
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I'm in line with the drop pod can't shoot because it isn't fast and moved at cruising speed.
what i want clarified now, is when a vehicle gets immobilized, does that over-ride how far it moved in it's previous turn, for the purposes of hitting it in close combat.
similarily, how is getting immobilized functionally different in this case than being stunned? In both cases, the vehicle won't be moving in the next turn. I don't see how one would be easier to hit than the other, if they both just moved 12".
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Wolf Man
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 06:05 pm |
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I think stunned vehicles can still spin in place. Unless that has changed in 5th ed., rotating vehicles that spin one direction or another without changing where they are on the table doesn't count as moving.
So maybe that rhino driver you stunned got knocked into one of the steering levers and is slumped over it for a full turn before he wakes up, causing the Rhino to spin in place making for a more difficult target to place that sticky-bomb on. More difficult than a Rhino that has thrown a track and simply cannot move at all (immobilized).
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twaimn
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 06:13 pm |
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apart from rationalizations, there is a rule that says you automatically hit immobilized vehicles, which overrules the speed in which it moved. there is no such rule for automatically hitting 'stunned' vehicles, and no where does it says that those vehicles are 'immobilized' so you'd still need 6's to hit them
I'm on the side of drop pods cant shoot the turn they deep strike, but I dont like it. I just cant come up with a way to let them do it without allowing other units to do so as well that dont need the bonus
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TW
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 06:22 pm |
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| why does it overrule it, though?
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Wolf Man
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 06:26 pm |
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TW wrote: why does it overrule it, though?
Because of the Chewbaca defense.
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TW
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 06:27 pm |
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| ???
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Brother Tiberius
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Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 06:40 pm |
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Wolf Man wrote: TW wrote: why does it overrule it, though?
Because of the Chewbaca defense.
LOL!
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