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TW
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 03:17 pm |
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what is the consensus on how far drop pods count as moving when they deepstrike?
Can a drop pod shoot the turn it lands? I remember the 4th edition FAQ stating that speeders counted as moving 'over 12"' so you couldn't deepstrike a speeder and shoot.
If the drop pod can shoot, then what about when it is assualted on the turn it arrives? Does the enemy need a 6 to hit it, a 4+, or hit automatically?
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Derling
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 05:20 pm |
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TW wrote: what is the consensus on how far drop pods count as moving when they deepstrike?
Can a drop pod shoot the turn it lands? I remember the 4th edition FAQ stating that speeders counted as moving 'over 12"' so you couldn't deepstrike a speeder and shoot.
If the drop pod can shoot, then what about when it is assualted on the turn it arrives? Does the enemy need a 6 to hit it, a 4+, or hit automatically?
That is a great question.
my gut tells me it can shoot immediately and that the Land speeders FAQ not applying as precident to the drop pod(which operates unlike most common vehicles and is essentially just a tool for deep striking troops. Given the nature and historicla reference to Deathwind Drop pods, which are designed to quickly land and throw down a death blossom into the ranks of an enemy furthers my belief that they count as moving 0" for all purposes.
Counting as Moving over 12" would naturally prevent them from disembarking troops which furthers my furthering belief that.
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TW
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 05:23 pm |
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they could have counted it as moving and given it power of the machine spirit or something, which would have been pretty clean.
but that does create the 'have to disembark - can't possibly disembark' conundrum.
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HDEagle71
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 05:23 pm |
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Deathwind Drop pods, which are designed to quickly land and throw down a death blossom into the ranks of an enemy furthers my belief that they count as moving 0" for all purposes.
So you would automatically hit if assaulting said drop pod?
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Derling
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Posted: Fri Oct 10th, 2008 05:38 pm |
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HDEagle71 wrote: Deathwind Drop pods, which are designed to quickly land and throw down a death blossom into the ranks of an enemy furthers my belief that they count as moving 0" for all purposes.
So you would automatically hit if assaulting said drop pod?
to my understanding, yes.
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TW
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 12:42 am |
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found the rule. in the deepstriking rules, it says that vehicles count as moving at cruising speed.
now, are drop pods fast?
land speeders are. this means that land speeders can now deepstrike and shoot.
that helps validate some of the point increase, I guess. but I might need to re-model my speeders with multimeltas, now.
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Stormcaller56
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 11:26 am |
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once it has entered the battle, a pod counts as a vehicle that has suffered an immobilised damage result. it would allow assaulting enemies to hit automatically.
troops must disembark, but cannot assault, from a pod on the turn the pod arrives. also, units count as moving for shooting purposes. this would still allow S & P units to shoot heavy weps on the turn of arrival, i would think.
shooting of the deathwind is allowed the turn the drop pod enters the battle.
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Derling
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 01:50 pm |
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TW wrote: found the rule. in the deepstriking rules, it says that vehicles count as moving at cruising speed.
now, are drop pods fast?
land speeders are. this means that land speeders can now deepstrike and shoot.
that helps validate some of the point increase, I guess. but I might need to re-model my speeders with multimeltas, now.
Interesting. If this is true I may have to do some research to find if Stormcaller's statements below would be true or false.
I find nothing yet pointing to Drop pods being fast vehicles, so my initial thoughts of Deathwind drop pods firing immediately might not be true...even though they should be able to. Unless someone find some odd caveat of rules somewhere, I do think according to the assaulting vehicles section, that immobilization immediately affects your ability to hit the vehicle...regardless of how fast it moved in it's previous turn.
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TW
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 02:12 pm |
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that is an interesting thing, then.
so if I move 12" in my turn, then get hit with a missile and get immobilized, I no longer count as moving for the purposes of the following assault phase?
seems a conundrum, because the assault phase says 'if the vehicle moved at cruising speed, you need x to hit' and so on.
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Derling
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 03:43 pm |
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TW wrote: that is an interesting thing, then.
so if I move 12" in my turn, then get hit with a missile and get immobilized, I no longer count as moving for the purposes of the following assault phase?
seems a conundrum, because the assault phase says 'if the vehicle moved at cruising speed, you need x to hit' and so on.
Pg 63 cites that a vehicle is automatically hit in assault if "Attacking a vehicle that is immobilised or was stationary in its previous turn."
If anyone finds any other section that might muddy this interpretation... let me know. I'm actually kinda hoping someone can find something, as I don't know if I like the idea of a vehicle immediately counting as immobilized.
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Wolf Man
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 04:43 pm |
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Derling wrote: I'm actually kinda hoping someone can find something, as I don't know if I like the idea of a vehicle immediately counting as immobilized.
You may not like it, but I think we can both agree that it is the rule.
As far as it being a conundrum. Yeah. Of course it is. One of many. 
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Derling
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 04:44 pm |
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Wolf Man wrote: You may not like it, but I think we can both agree that it is the rule.
yus
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Wolf Man
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 05:02 pm |
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It actually makes more sense with the drop pod than with any other type of vehicle.
When attacking other vehicles there could always be the question of when exactly it is moving in relationship to your troopers attacking it. Although a vehicle may have moved at flank speed and then been charged, if it survives it could just as well sit there next turn and fire away essentially acting the same as a vehicle that moved at flank speed only to be immobilized at the end of its move. Same movement characteristics, but completely different results when handling an assault against that vehicle. The rules attempt to define (and predict) what the vehicle is doing before, during, and after your troopers rush into assault with it. Is it stopped and creating an easy target? Is it slowly moving across the battlefield attempting to take some pot-shots at the enemy as you run up on it creating a more difficult target to hit? Is it rushing past you as you attempt to fling a sticky-bomb into just the right spot, creating an even more difficult assault attempt? The rules seem to attempt such prediction by saying that if the vehicle is mobile and moving, it is probably going to continue to move, and therefore creats a more difficult target.
With the drop pod, the only time you can actually hit it is after it has slammed into the ground. Unmoving, it is easy to hack away at it.
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HDEagle71
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 06:46 pm |
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Derling wrote: If anyone finds any other section that might muddy this interpretation... let me know. I'm actually kinda hoping someone can find something, as I don't know if I like the idea of a vehicle immediately counting as immobilized.
Fot 35 points that can deep strike with no worries of harming your troops inside I would say it is more than a fair trade  Exspecially when it is right onto the objective or in the middle of your enemy 
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TW
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 06:52 pm |
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I'm not so worried about the drop pod, but about any regular tank that this would apply to.
does that wording specifically override the 'assaulting a moving vehicle' wording?
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Derling
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 06:54 pm |
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HDEagle71 wrote: Derling wrote: If anyone finds any other section that might muddy this interpretation... let me know. I'm actually kinda hoping someone can find something, as I don't know if I like the idea of a vehicle immediately counting as immobilized.
Fot 35 points that can deep strike with no worries of harming your troops inside I would say it is more than a fair trade Exspecially when it is right onto the objective or in the middle of your enemy
I'm not really speaking in regards to army fairness or even soley speaking of the rules for drop pods.
I'm really talking more about how vehicle moving fast and suddenly immobilized count as immobilized.
I might find it odd how it works with a smaller subset, like a single semi-rare(at least for the moment) unit like the drop pod, but don't personally care on that part one way or the other.
and with demonic summoning and chaos icons as they, don't you have no right to gripe at all regarding models safely jump onto the table whereever you want?Last edited on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 07:05 pm by Derling
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HDEagle71
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 06:55 pm |
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Do you mean this scenario?
I fire lascannon at predator I immobilize it then I assault it with a squd and PF I get to automatically hit?
The stationary part has always been there though.
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Derling
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 06:55 pm |
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TW wrote: does that wording specifically override the 'assaulting a moving vehicle' wording?
give me a page reference so I can compare and correlate the rules....
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Derling
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 06:57 pm |
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HDEagle71 wrote: Do you mean this scenario?
I fire lascannon at predator I immobilize it then I assault it with a squd and PF I get to automatically hit?
The stationary part has always been there though.
yus. that is what I'm refering too. due to it's writing in 4th ed, the vehicle counted as moving even after being immobilized.(or was supposed be to at least). I'm not finding anything that contradicts my pg63 bit that now reverses this. TW might have something an am waiting for a pg#
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ethmongul
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Posted: Tue Oct 14th, 2008 07:23 pm |
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| pg 69 in the new SM codex, a drop pod cannot move once it has entered the battle, and counts in all respects as a vehicle that has suffered an immobilised damaged result
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