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HDEagle71
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Posted: Wed Nov 23rd, 2005 04:25 pm |
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Ok Braden thinks this would win everything in a 2K game.
1 or 2 HQs one with Orb
The rest just basic Neron footsloggers.
I think Braden say he could get close to 100 Necrons on the table.
What do you think?
Last edited on Sat Sep 15th, 2007 12:09 am by
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Brother Tiberius
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Posted: Wed Nov 23rd, 2005 09:02 pm |
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HDEagle71 wrote: Ok Bradon thinks this would win everything in a 2K game.
1 or 2 HQs one with Orb
The rest just basic Neron footsloggers.
I think Bradon say he could get close to 100 Necrons on the table.
What do you think?
It would be horribly slow and horribly static. If I can sit and shoot at you from 24.1+ inches away, you'll never reach me. You'll get WBB's, but you'll start to lose out if you have to take and hold any objective, hold table quarters, etc. And god help you if you are assaulted. You might have some WBB's in the first round, but you'd also have problems if the squad gets wiped out and you don't have a tomb spider to try and bring that squad back by folding it into another one.
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crterry
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Posted: Wed Nov 30th, 2005 08:40 pm |
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Phase out would be tough as you'd have to kill over 70 models. But I'd put 2000 points of sisters, deathwing or ravenwing against that list anyday.
Two turns and the ravenwing would be chopping and punching its way through large sections of that force.
Sisters would just burn their way through with flamers and faith. Without the Monolith you'd be in trouble. Ask Andy what happens to necrons when they meet flamers and divine guidance.
Deathwing? It would be ouchy. After I poured fire into you, I'd laugh off a turn of two of your shooting, then watch as necrons got punched into piles of spare parts.
The list might be tough for guard in a space civil war game, but even then you'd be dropping pieplates into huge sections of the line from 36 inches away.
I think the list would give the biggest headaches to an assault army without transports.
necrons have some great units (like immortals or destroyers), anyone doing a necron list is a fool to not take some of them
CT
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twaimn
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Posted: Sun Dec 4th, 2005 07:19 am |
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terminators, I agree, might be a problem for that list. but pie plates, flamers, and little else scares me. also, in a cleanse senario, I think you underestimate 24 inch range. in most of the GW senerios you start on average 18 inches away from the opponents deployment, and after three turns of moving I should be able to move about a third of my army into range of whatever you have. to add to that, MOST of the weapons that i fear are 24 inch range as well, plasma cannons and giant pie plates being exceptions. still. I will take on and beat any army you want to feild against my proxy necron list any day of the week... I'm that confident <grins>
I say proxy because I own exactly 0 necrons. but either orks or gaurd will stand in nicely. basically a str 4 rapid fire gun that can glance any vehicle is something that is underrated by too many people, and the ability to stand up after ANY wound is something that, when rolling even statistically, will grind out any opponent you can throw at me.
consider...how many terminators can you throw out in a deathwing? (is that the termi dark angels?) 30? so you'll be outnumbered approx 3 to one? that means EACH terminator has to kill more than 3 necrons in order for me to phase out (50% chance to stand up included in statsistic). and once you hit range to do that damage, I don't think you can make 29-58 (88x.66x.5) 2+ saves a turn.
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crterry
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Posted: Sun Dec 4th, 2005 02:54 pm |
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I think you are underestimating two things in reverse.
Starting 18 inches away means in the worst case scenario, I'm charging you in round two. round one in a deathwing army with a LRC crusader full of assault terminators. (12 in move, 2 inch deploy, 6"assault) Can necrons push back 35 I5 strength 5 power weapon attacks, rerolling misses (chappy,) re-rolling wounds (LC) against a unit that is fearless?
Also, the deathwing is just as shooty. each five man unit has 14 attack dice, 8 of which are possible rending hits.
One never knows how the dice will shake obviously, but having played deathwing against necrons, I've seen the armor saves get made.
Its a tough list, and I'd love to try it out when my new dw is done. I'll buy the beer and sausages.
CT
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twaimn
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Posted: Sun Dec 4th, 2005 04:29 pm |
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done and done
~B
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Brother Tiberius
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Posted: Sun Dec 4th, 2005 07:52 pm |
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I'll front the Necrons. You come by some time, Chris will bring his army, and you'll see how badly things will go for you.
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Joe S
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Posted: Mon Dec 5th, 2005 09:29 am |
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| All Hail The Deathwing!
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Major_Slovak
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Posted: Mon Dec 5th, 2005 06:12 pm |
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| All hail crashed and burning Monoliths.
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twaimn
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Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 10:27 pm |
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so the list has been updated, hopefully for the better.
in truth, this updating is for purchasing power, as it will take 3 box sets, one destroyer, and one lord to complete.
it's basically...
1 lord with an orb and a war scythe
2-14 man squads of warriors
2-16 man squads of warriors
1-10 man squad of scarab bases
2-5 man squads of destroyers
a little more mobility, a little more range, and the scarab suck fire for the first turn
(that or they charge 3-4 fire support squads turn two.)
phase out is still 51, and the points work out to 1850 on the button
I did two 14 and two 16 instead of four 15 man squads for scoring unit purposes. at 15 you kill 8 models and they're under half, same with 14, but the 16 man units need to have 9 killed to be under scoring.
basically forces two more deaths to bring half the troops under scoring.
there's some issue with only having 7 scoring units, but I did an alpha seek and destroy against a razorback rush list (with 12 scoring units..including termies) and got them down to 3 scoring units, losing only one destroyer squad, the scarabs, and a handfull of warriors.
<shrug> thoughts??
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Major_Slovak
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Posted: Thu Apr 20th, 2006 10:54 pm |
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How many scoring units should you have for an 1850 (tournament) list? Is there conventional wisdom on that? What about 1500? 2000?
Just curious.
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grimlock35
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Posted: Fri Apr 21st, 2006 03:00 am |
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1-tomb spider=all your squads can be 12" apart rather than 6"
lord+ veil of darkness (read about it its nasty) or gaze of flame( against those assalty armys they will lose there +1 for assalt bonus!)
and toss some parahs at those termies no 2+ or 5+ but no WBB but youll go before those power fists .
just some ideas... like any army all parts must work together...greater than the sum of there parts
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crterry
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Posted: Fri Apr 21st, 2006 05:02 am |
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Radically different than your initial suggestion. My deathwing will be ready for a showdown in a few weeks.
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Brother Tiberius
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Posted: Fri Apr 21st, 2006 01:49 pm |
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twaimn wrote: so the list has been updated, hopefully for the better.
in truth, this updating is for purchasing power, as it will take 3 box sets, one destroyer, and one lord to complete.
it's basically...
1 lord with an orb and a war scythe
2-14 man squads of warriors
2-16 man squads of warriors
1-10 man squad of scarab bases
2-5 man squads of destroyers
a little more mobility, a little more range, and the scarab suck fire for the first turn
(that or they charge 3-4 fire support squads turn two.)
phase out is still 51, and the points work out to 1850 on the button
I did two 14 and two 16 instead of four 15 man squads for scoring unit purposes. at 15 you kill 8 models and they're under half, same with 14, but the 16 man units need to have 9 killed to be under scoring.
basically forces two more deaths to bring half the troops under scoring.
there's some issue with only having 7 scoring units, but I did an alpha seek and destroy against a razorback rush list (with 12 scoring units..including termies) and got them down to 3 scoring units, losing only one destroyer squad, the scarabs, and a handfull of warriors.
<shrug> thoughts??
Give me a call on Friday afternoon or over this weekend, (04/21-04/23). I'll bust this army out for you and you can give it a go before buying.
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twaimn
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Posted: Mon Apr 24th, 2006 03:47 pm |
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even further thoughts include dropping 4 of the destroyers and four of the warriors in favor of upgrading 20 warriors to immortals and adding a tomb spyder....
looking like...
Lord (100) war scythe +10, orb +40
10 immortals (280)
10 immortals (280)
12 warriors (216)
12 warriors (216)
12 warriors (216)
3 destroyers (150)
3 destroyers (150)
10 scarab bases (120)
1 tomb spyder (55)
current total is 1833....17 points left. thoughts?
chronometron? gaze of flame? phylactery?
or I could drop like two warriors and a scarab base for a second spyder... is that necessary??
speaking on spyders...is the staff of light a good upgrade? tis free, so I feel like it's alright.... and could one argue that with the staff of light the spyder is armed with claws and a close combat weapon? (staff of light counts as a power weapon, pg 14)
does that net him an extra attack in close combat, bringing him back up to 3?
I feel like the answer is no, but at the same time, it would explain why you lose one for the gun, they don't want you to get a fourth for no reason. (course if yes than you're getting a gun for no reason, but <shrug>
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twaimn
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Posted: Mon Apr 24th, 2006 03:54 pm |
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my 1651 list had like ten units, but half of them weren't scoring, and two or three more were static fire support. this made taking objectives reaaaallly hard, especially if the opponent knew what to shoot at. I think that having fewer scoring units is acceptable, but that as you take smaller numbers of units, those units must become proportionatly more mobile, to allow for last turn rushes on objectives or quarters.
this necron list may be a departure from that dogma, as each unit is particularly hard to kill, resulting in a much higher surviorability rate for my troops. also, unless facing an army that I know will ignore objectives in favor of rushing straight at my lines (re: korne, 'nids, some orks, etc) I'll pretty much be on the advance the whole game, giving me approx. 36" of move for the army, more than enough to get into a deployment zone.
further necron tactics could prove an interesting topic, but I'll move it to the necron forum (as they're so poor at making their own )
Last edited on Mon Apr 24th, 2006 03:55 pm by twaimn
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the_prince
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Posted: Wed Apr 26th, 2006 02:33 pm |
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This army would be absolutely owned by any Tyranid army with 3 or more monstrous creatures with 2+ saves. Why? Let's do the math.
To kill a single T6, 2+ save critter, a Necron needs to inflict 4 wounds, with weapons that need to wound on a 6, then passe a 2+ save (so, need 6 wounds for every failed save), and then actually hit (bs 4=1.5 shots to hit with one). Multiplying it all, we get:
4x6x6x1.5=216
So, to kill one single TMC with str 4, ap 5 guns, with BS 4, you'd need to take an average of 216 shots at it. I think that's a fairly good argument for why an all warrior army will not win every battle.
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Brother Tiberius
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Posted: Wed Apr 26th, 2006 06:51 pm |
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twaimn wrote: even further thoughts include dropping 4 of the destroyers and four of the warriors in favor of upgrading 20 warriors to immortals and adding a tomb spyder....
looking like...
Lord (100) war scythe +10, orb +40
10 immortals (280)
10 immortals (280)
12 warriors (216)
12 warriors (216)
12 warriors (216)
3 destroyers (150)
3 destroyers (150)
10 scarab bases (120)
1 tomb spyder (55)
current total is 1833....17 points left. thoughts?
chronometron? gaze of flame? phylactery?
or I could drop like two warriors and a scarab base for a second spyder... is that necessary??
speaking on spyders...is the staff of light a good upgrade? tis free, so I feel like it's alright.... and could one argue that with the staff of light the spyder is armed with claws and a close combat weapon? (staff of light counts as a power weapon, pg 14)
does that net him an extra attack in close combat, bringing him back up to 3?
I feel like the answer is no, but at the same time, it would explain why you lose one for the gun, they don't want you to get a fourth for no reason. (course if yes than you're getting a gun for no reason, but <shrug>
That army will also get owned by a Tyranid Swarm army.
My list would be the following:
Necron Lord, Warscythe, Resurrection Orb, Phylactery, Lightning Field or Phase Shifter.
Necron Lord, Warscythe, Res Orb, Destroyer Body
8 Immortals
10 Warriors
10 Warriors
10 Warriors
4 Destroyers
4 Destoyers
4 Destroyers
Tomb Spyder
Tomb Spyder
The Destroyers give you a high rate of fire, S6 AP4, range, and mobility. Relatively speaking, all three of those elements are typically limited in a Necron Army. Sticking that Destroyer Lord in the middle of those units allows you to keep up with them as they move about the battlefield and lay a withering amount of firepower down on enemy units. You'll make about 8 to 10 hits per 12 shot salvo and wound with at least 6 to 8 of them. Typical Power Armor units wither against that type of stuff. Any of the other fast attack options, like Scarabs with D Fields just don't have enough guts to get the job done and are, at best, a speed bump in an enemy's headlong move into assaulting your army. Terminators are about the only unit that can sustain that type of damage from Destroyers., and even then at 40 points a piece, it's expensive for the opponent to start losing them.
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HDEagle71
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Posted: Thu Apr 27th, 2006 07:31 pm |
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I am making a rule Braden swore that an all necron troop army and a HQ with orb would win against anything.
He now has to play that army list for a year for BRAGGING ABOUT THIS before playtesting.
My 2 Cents can I get a HELL YA! 
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twaimn
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Posted: Fri Apr 28th, 2006 04:52 am |
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40 of the shots in my newest list are str 5, ap 4, assault shots.
this gives me nice range, and the scarabs are a nescessary speed bump for assault based armies like 'nids and korne.
I'm looking at, in any given turn,
18 str 6, ap 4 36" shots
40 str 5, ap 4 24" shots
and 72 str 4, ap 5 12" shots
I agree that 2+ saves are going to be a problem, but I think I can handle 30-60 gaunts a shooting phase, if I space things right
remember, people, I think necrons are a FINESSE army
every half inch in this army is critical, along with which units you sacrafice to close combat and when you do it.
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