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HDEagle71
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 03:31 pm |
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OK who does every one use rhinos?
Mine die before they get there an I always wish I just footslogged it across the board or I use them as screening cover which is still sometimes a waste of points.
How do you use them effectively? This is for CSM or SM as our point costs are higher and so you end up having less on the table to shoot at which makes the rhinos even that much more juicy.
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TW
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 04:39 pm |
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After thinking about saturday's game a bit, the problem wasn't that I blew up the rhinos. In fact, I think I killed one on turn two, one on three, and one on four.
The issue was that I took out the land raider (and all of the terminators that got out of it) on turn one. The rhinos were behind the land raider, so once it died, you still couldn't get to me on the next turn.
The way you needed to play that game was a direct assault with everything you had (for the casual reader, this was his Chaos Marines against my guard, and by the time he gave up (end of turn five) he was down to a weaponless vindicator and 5 chaos marines, and I had lost maybe 20 guardsmen and a tank turret. True story.)
If you had lined up all three rhinos, the vindicator, and the land raider right where you had the land raider, and just drove forward, you would have had me. ALL of my shooting on turn one was pretty much against the land raider and terminators, and I just managed to kill them. The vindicator and rhinos would have been untouched, most likely. Turn two and three would have been ugly for me, as I wouldn't have a priority target, and too many units within assault range. Plus the vindicator at best killing large numbers of guardsmen, at worst making them go to ground so that they can't shoot back.
I'm not saying it would have worked, but because I got to shoot at you one unit at a time, and you didn't spend any real effort trying to kill guardsmen, I had plenty left at the end to do away with the unit of nurgle marines that did eventually get to me (and assault three units, win the combat by 7, run one unit down, and have the other two run away.....which left the balance of my army ready to unload on the nurglies, and kill them all plus the lord. but it took almost an entire 1750 point gaurd army to do it ....)
but really, that game was going to go badly for you as soon as the land raider + terminators died before doing anything at all. and that was just bad luck, really.
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Wolf Man
Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 05:05 pm |
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I have a really hard time using Rhinos. But Dacio always seems to use his very well.
He has this knack of always getting his rhinos up close in front of me and spinning them sideways while dumping out the troops (plague marines) behind it and then popping smoke. Those plague marines are almost always toting at least a couple meltas or plasmas, so even if they aren't in charge range on their next turn they can still put the hurt on their opponent. If you manage to pop the rhino, then the plague marines just jump into the wreckage and fire away! If you don't hurt the rhino, then it drives off to harrass you endlessly while you risk possibly getting charged by the marines.
Dacio always seems to make this work. I rarely get this to work. It is a great frustration of mine! 
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Pen dull
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 06:10 pm |
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I have yet to play with a Rhino except in old editions with looted rhinos. I pretty much used them like slow trukks...
J has great use of his Rhinos. He should be the one chiming in here.
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Brother Silas
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 06:30 pm |
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Now that I have to use combat squads I will only buy one for a full squad of troops that will stay together. No reason to buy one that ends up being for five guys. Generally, my troops will move on foot, being able to run really helps get them in position. Throw in the fact that it's real easy to get cover and a 4+inv = no need for rhinos unless the game is real big.
Other squads, such as the honor guard, get razorbacks since the squad size is so small. And at 50 points for a twin-linked heavy bolter transport, which is slightly more than a rhino I have no need to take them anymore.
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Wolf Man
Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 07:57 pm |
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Yeah, Razorbacks are were it's at!
You Chaos guys should maybe try capturing some or something.
Oh, wait, you can't, huh? Loyal marines are too tough, eh?
Awwwww.... i'm sorry. It'll be okay. Here's a chicken head to keep you company in your sorrow. 
Maybe you can make a tentacle grow out of it.
There you go! 
Good job!
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twaimn
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Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 09:20 pm |
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55 pts for a rhino with havok isnt a bad trade for a razorback... still holds all 10 guys, and str 5 template with 48" range is just as good (if not better) than a hvy bolter.
that being said, I use my rhinos like mobile walls.
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Derling
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Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 04:51 pm |
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twaimn wrote: that being said, I use my rhinos like mobile walls.
Yeah, that works,
I'd also add that for most armies now, the base cost of a Rhino is the same virtually as 2 marines, meaning that you don't really lose that much model wise(essentially losing 1 model).
Plus with some rhinos on the table, you at least have a chance that you're predators and such won't be taking as many AT shots.
Plus, they provide reliable movement as opposed to running.
What I most commonly see across the table is that rhinos are placed our in the open, probably in positions to be able ot push forward as quickly as possible. I think though if you place them cautiously and then give them first dibs at LOSBlocking cover/ Obscurement cover midfield, they'll get where they need to or at least soak up more than 35 pts of enemy fire power.
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ethmongul
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Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 07:02 pm |
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| has anyone mentioned that you can transport any squad(not just the one that bought it)now in 5thed. This is one of the bigger changes in my opinion.Squads aren't stuck anymore when you do the transport rush across the field.Not to mention those pesky little last round pickups to get on an objective moves.Don't count them out fellas.
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ethmongul
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Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 07:03 pm |
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| Has anybody used them to ram yet?
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Derling
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Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 07:08 pm |
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ethmongul wrote: Has anybody used them to ram yet?
Not yet, but with a front armor 11 and a max Ram Strength of 6(I think off hand anyway it's not going to work too well except under the best conditions. Tack to that that you'll be taking AT LEAST a str5 hit in return, it seems like a risky thing to do.(at least for what you're getting out of it.)
though mileage varies based on those little tiny boots on the felt battleground.
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ethmongul
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Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 07:12 pm |
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I donno, the posibility of taking out predators with ramming rhinos to the back sounds pretty cool to me,and also a completely unexpected move against your opponent
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Derling
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Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 07:20 pm |
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ethmongul wrote: I donno, the posibility of taking out predators with ramming rhinos to the back sounds pretty cool to me,and also a completely unexpected move against your opponent
I dunno....maybe?
As I said, game time situations will make this look like a better or worse idea depending.
In the meanwhile, I'll probably be slow on adding rammy-plates bitz to my rhinos.
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Lord Bran Redmaw
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Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 09:27 pm |
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Honestly where is boroth when you need him.
He is the guru of the rhino, because he uses them in a way I have never seen anyone else do. Jay uses his not to charge the enemy so much as redeploy his gun line. He usually sends one up close and personal to get a second turn charge if need to but mainly its all about jostling for shootin spots. And when all else fails, he drops 4-6 havoc templates of a squad, and in 5th ed that equals dead guys.
And after all the shootin has softened the targets up he rolls in with CSM, which people seem to forget have 3 attacks on the charge plus pistol shots.
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Pen dull
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Posted: Thu Nov 13th, 2008 03:51 pm |
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Lord Bran Redmaw wrote:
Honestly where is boroth when you need him.
He is the guru of the rhino, because he uses them in a way I have never seen anyone else do. Jay uses his not to charge the enemy so much as redeploy his gun line. He usually sends one up close and personal to get a second turn charge if need to but mainly its all about jostling for shootin spots. And when all else fails, he drops 4-6 havoc templates of a squad, and in 5th ed that equals dead guys.
And after all the shootin has softened the targets up he rolls in with CSM, which people seem to forget have 3 attacks on the charge plus pistol shots.
I agree. I love playing against Boroth just to see him re-deploy his gun line by popping in and out of rhinos. He also brings close-range shooting alongside his imminent charging units. You think to yourself, "eh, I can take this charge," but then he runs a rhino full of guys alongside, pops out seven or so dudes with meltas and flamers and-wot-nots and...
BAM lord of the pit.
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LordBoroth
Member
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Posted: Thu Nov 13th, 2008 06:20 pm |
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Rhino tactics...
Well I think rhinos may be more usefull now for non-space marine armies. But again I guess it depends on how you use them.
If i were playing space marines i'd probably use razorbacks.
For chaos space marines there is actually quite a bit of cool configurations for the lowly rhino.
I like running the havoc launcher and extra armor version. Its 65 points which may put off some people, but i like the ability to always be able to move, unless i'm immobilized or blown up and it is cheaper than possession.
Another good configuration is using combi weapons on the rhino. I have yet to play around with this much simply because i haven't done the conversions yet.
The key to using rhinos is to figure out what you are using them for BEFORE the game and preferably before you even make your army list.
Rhinos in the chaos marine army can be used in a variety of ways.
1 - as a transport, plain and simple. Get your troops to the combat as fast as possible.
2 - as a mobile firebase. With the havoc launcher you have a strength 5 blast template that has an effective range of 54"
3 - as a combination of the above.
I like to use them as a combination. I have begun to realize that, unlike in 4th editioin it is better to leave you troops embarked in their vehicle until it is absolutely necessary to deploy. You can still fire out of the top of a rhino and fire its havoc launcher. Also the rhino gives your troops an extra defense against shooting, because the enemy has to get through your rhino's armor before they can kill your troops. (This is key against daemons!)
The composition of your army also helps determine how you will use the rhinos in your army.
If your army is fully mechanized, what are the rhinos for? Is it an assault army? Then no havoc launcher probly.
Is you army only partly mechanized? Then what are the rhinos for? mobile firebase? or flank attack transport? or what?
I could write for pages, but i have class in a few minutes, i'll get back to this laters.
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Lord Bran Redmaw
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Posted: Thu Nov 13th, 2008 07:48 pm |
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LordBoroth wrote: Also the rhino gives your troops an extra defense against shooting, because the enemy has to get through your rhino's armor before they can kill your troops. (This is key against daemons!)
You just couldn't resist could you
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crterry
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Posted: Thu Nov 13th, 2008 08:17 pm |
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I've come to believe that the rhino and a squad mounted inside are a great counter attacking unit.
I like the razorback, especially with the way SM Combat squads play out now, but I will always have a full squad of assault marines with two flamers mounted in a rhino. I hold this unit till I can take the iniative and attack with it. I'll creep forward, but then when the time is right, I'll make a full power move deploy and lay down flamer/bolt pistol fire to hit a tightly packed or high model count infantry unit. My new ability to re-roll flamer wounds has only convinced me that this plan is more viable.
I can't assalt following my "rush" but I'll trade the charge for two well placed flamer templates. In this addition, those marines are part of my list as bullet stoppers anyway, and since they are assault marines, I don't even care about getting charged. Worst case scenario, I risk 250 points to stall the forward progress of the opposing player for at least a full turn. But a block of ten guys, one of whom carries a thunderhammer/ss combo has proven pretty tough, and there's always a few of them left to fight, and chances are if they did get wiped out, they drew their share of firepower or nasty cc enemies in the tarpit that they are designed to be.
I play my sisters rhinos the same way. I usually run two or three. I have a nasty unit of dominions with 4 meltaguns I like to run in one rhino. This unit has one job, to rush across the board and engage a big nasty, be it a vehicle, IC or some bird headed crapper. I point them at something and they take their shot. If nothing else, it forces an opposing player to deal with that unit, which can take some heat off me.
The other unit I'll run in a rhino is a straight battlesister's squad with two flamers. While similar to the unit I have for my salamanders, this units job to take terrain or plug a hole in my line depending on the need in any particular game. By hanging back, and making a move when I need it, I can really make use of a sub 200 point unit at just the right time in the game.
CT
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Dacio
Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 09:32 am |
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I find you need an even number of rhinos. Having two on a flank is like having your own personal wall. If i use three, i forget what to do with the third and thats when it will be destroyed. Then it only creates cover in front of the squad. If you had two, it would give you more options to where you want cover to be. Fuck, you could have eight.
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Major_Slovak
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Posted: Sun Nov 16th, 2008 01:49 pm |
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Odds, evens, who knows. But you can buy five of them for less points than a single Demolisher, so why not run a whole fucking fleet? They're practically free.
It's 35 pts. for a piece of terrain that you can move around. I can't buy them for guard, but that's game-changing tactically.
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